Adventure Gamers - Forums

GateKeeper - 25 November 2023 06:27 AM

There is even a short YouTube documentary about the [the JP-only] Mystery House

With Ken himself around, it would be interesting reading his thoughts on this “”“"inspired”“”” Japanese counterpart.

GateKeeper - 02 December 2023 06:17 AM

The important thing to note in that video (somewhere between 2:00-3:00 and repeated between 9:00-10:00) is that the translator was motivated to complete his work based on the feedback he received. So if people gave positive feedback to fan translators, we could have more nice things, maybe?

I wonder why some translators still haven’t formed a group where aficionados can throw donations at their feet. Surely it isn’t illegal, especially when so many of the best untranslated games are from defunct companies, or IPs that powerful companies don’t even remember they own. It’s kinda modding, right? So many translation projects that were hyped are dead due to (mostly) time and resources. Is it to keep them as exclusively passion-projects with zero obligations to deliver? Because iirc there’s a serviceable French fan-translation patch for SamSho RPG for quite a few years; there’s no reason for taking this long to come up with an English one. With so many false starts and hopes shot down, now that it has finally been released it kinda fell flat.

Lamb - 04 December 2023 09:14 AM

I wonder why some translators still haven’t formed a group where aficionados can throw donations at them.

I don’t know, and I have never seen any such thing.
In other contexts those are a real thing. There used to be groups who quite shamelessly asked money for translating Korean variety shows and such. I think they mostly died after niche streaming services started to offer such content, and there was no longer real need for fansubs.

Obviously fansubs were kind of better because they tried to match colours, text size and whatever is stylistically possible between two completely different writing systems. Official subs usually only translate what is spoken, and mostly ignore any on-screen texts.

But in any case, fansubbers made shows like Running Man internationally famous. I guess game translations come more from the hacking culture where few dedicated persons share their tweaks and hacks between each other.

Lamb - 04 December 2023 09:14 AM

Surely it isn’t illegal, especially when so many of the best untranslated games are from defunct companies, or IPs that powerful companies don’t even remember they own. It’s kinda modding, right?

An interesting question.
Those almost always require some kind of hacks to work, so there is that modding aspect, but there is one problematic thing legally. If we think about literature, translated books actually have two copyrights that exist simultaneously. The translator has copyright on his translation work, but the original author legally owns the work regardless of which language the book is in.

I’m not sure which laws apply to game fan translations exactly, but I think someone could make a case that they are original creative works of the original author, which actually makes reproducing them in a different language illegal. In text heavy games, like visual novels, this could be the case, I think?
Then again, the most likely court cases would be about breaking some digital protections to gain access to game data, not about any creative content.

I’m not aware of any (game) fan translation project ever being sued or anything, so it’s a bit theoretical, for the most part. An interesting question though.
On the other hand, I think game companies are very pragmatic. They know that people in certain places in the world won’t buy the games if they aren’t available in their language, so they are not losing any money from sales which wouldn’t happen in any case.

So I think it’s regarded as harmless hacking mostly. Whether that’s how a court of law would see it if ever tested in a trial, that’s a different matter.

Lamb - 04 December 2023 09:14 AM

So many translation projects there were hyped are dead due to (mostly) time and resources. Is it to keep them exclusively passion-projects with zero obligations to deliver? Because iirc there has been a serviceable French fan-translation for SamSho RPG for quite a few years; there’s no reason of taking this long to come up with an English one. With so many false starts and hopes shot down, now that it has finally come out it kinda fell flat.

Yeah, it’s a bit surprising how sometimes different language hacks are wasting their efforts by doing same kind of things independently and not working together.

Different character sets are obviously an issue. You can’t necessarily use the same hack in different languages. I don’t think that’s the problem in your example though, because everything that English language has, is part of the French writing system. English to French would be a trickier issue, because of all those é è ê ë characters and everything.

As far as that specific game goes, with 20 seconds research I found this:
“French translation was 100% for story but battle text was broken.”
I have no idea if that’s true or not, but at least it would be a good reason for the delayed English version.

Lamb’s message inspired me to think cases where fan translating was made easy, and L.K. Avalon’s games come to mind there. Sołtys (1995) and Sfinx (1997) are available as freeware on ScummVM website, they run in ScummVM obviously, and are made easy to fan translate in other languages. The original games are in Polish, and English translations are available as well.

These are kind of special cases, because they are done with original developer’s approval, so they are semi-official translations, perhaps?

Sołtys
“The game is a classic point and click adventure in which you collect objects and find places to use them. You move from one location to another using special “location icons”. Number of available locations to visit represents the game’s progress. At first there are only eight of them and later on they increase to total number of 24. The game is full of Polish jokes and “play on words” technique to give player hints how riddles should be solved.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/19196/sołtys/

It was fan translated in November 2011.

Sfinx
“Wacek and Andzia, a pair of school friends, are told by an old Professor that a flying saucer crashed somewhere on Earth. Poor little alien didn’t make it on a sharp interstellar turn… The player guides the two kids trying to find him and help him out.
The graphics and gameplay style of this kid-friendly adventure game are similar to Sołtys, but this time the player controls two characters at once, as in Kajko i Kokosz. Conversations are automatic, and all lines are spoken.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/42915/sfinx/

It was fan translated in December 2014.

Anyway, things have been made easy, as there are nice instructions on ScummVM wiki on how to translate Sołtys (presumably works for Sfinx as well) in other languages.
https://wiki.scummvm.org/index.php/Soltys/Translations

It’s a bit surprising that there aren’t many translations to other languages, at least not on ScummVM website, not sure about other places. Maybe there aren’t too many Polish speakers, and translating from the English version might lose too much in translation?
I don’t know, but at least they have laid a good foundation for people to try, if anyone likes the challenge.

We can continue the tour of the Polish section of this game exhibition by adding a game that was referred to in the Mobygames quote of Sfinx, Kajko i Kokosz. I don’t think too many adventurers ever noticed that the game was briefly available on GOG, without translation, but has since been removed, at least for now.

Kajko i Kokosz
“Kajko i Kokosz is a classic point & click adventure game, based on a popular Polish comic book series featuring the same characters. You can switch between the two characters at will, and some actions have to be done with a specific character. The controls are pretty simple - to interact with the environment, you just have to click. You have a limited space in your inventory, but you can take an object from your inventory and drop it anywhere at any time. The game graphics feature original artwork created by the creator of the series, Janusz Christa, thus retaining the “look & feel” of the comic books.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/42485/kajko-i-kokosz/

It was fan translated in June 2012.

And there’s one more game from Poland, involving fan translations and GOG, which is a very interesting case. The Prince and the Coward is available on GOG, and unlike Kajko i Kokosz, this game is being sold with the fan translation!
So… does this mean that we are no longer talking about fan translation, but an actual official translation?

Książę i Tchórz (The Prince and the Coward)
“The Prince and the Coward is a 2D point and click adventure. The game is set in a fantasy kingdom. Young Galador makes a deal with the devil to become a prince and have a life full of adventures. Very quickly, Galador realizes this kind of life is not for him and now is trying to get back his old life.
The game is controlled by mouse (clicking on an item brings up a menu with possible actions) and apart from adventure puzzles, contains some minor arcade sequences.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/30716/galador-the-prince-and-the-coward/

It was fan translated in September 2020.

Should games be sold with or without fan translations, any thoughts?

Does everyone miss Japan already? 
I guess we can have one more European game, and then return to Japanese games. Raise your voices, if you disagree.

This one is kind of surprising title, because it doesn’t make that much sense not to have an official English version of it, because it’s available in German, French, and so on, and there was an English version of the first game. And we are of course talking about the sequel (prequel) to Tony Tough.

Tony Tough 2: A Rake’s Progress
“Tony Tough 2: A Rake’s Progress is a 2006 Windows adventure game designed by Stefano Gualeni and published by Dtp-entertainment. It is the sequel to Tony Tough and the Night of Roasted Moths (1999).
The story of Tony Tough 2 follows a day in the life of Tony Tough as he investigates alien landings and ancient Indian cultures in his hometown of Washington, New Mexico during the early 1950s.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_Tough_2:_A_Rake’s_Progress

It was fan translated in January 2013.

Big glasses, dark hair, whimpy looks, using his brains to solve mysteries… it must be Tony Tough’s Japanese cousin, Conan!

That’s… eh… kind of wrong Conan, me thinks…
Sorry guys, getting confused here…
But these two are definitely cousins or something:

I really should get an award of some kind for that smooth Europe to Japan transition! 

But anyway, Detective Conan is a comic character in Japan, and the comics are called “Case Closed” in English.
There are many Detective Conan games for many console platforms, but here are the ones that have been fan translated.

Meitantei Conan: Karakuri Jiin Satsujin Jiken (Detective Conan: The Mechanical Temple Murder Case)
“Karakuri Jiin Satsujinjiken (からくり寺院殺人事件) is the first Detective Conan mystery adventure game released for Game Boy Color. During the holidays, Conan and Ran decide to meet at a certain cafe. While there, Ran runs into her classmate Miki by chance, who is part-time working at that very cafe. In turn, Miki calls them to come to her place where she tells them about her worrying about her sister Satomi. Apparently she said she’s going on a trip as she was heading out, but she never called or told Miki where she went. She is a rather methodical person, which makes her behavior suspiciously strange, and Miki asks Ran and Conan to help her find her sister. Also, before she went out, she was acting strange according to Miki. After listening in more detail and agreeing to help Miki look for Satomi, Conan and Ran head to Satomi’s room to look for clues about her whereabouts. There they find out what was a direction to a secluded old temple and with that as their only lead to go on, they set out to find Satomi.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/71703/meitantei-conan-karakuri-jiin-satsujin-jiken/

It was fan translated in February 2014.

Meitantei Conan: Kigantou Hihou Densetsu (Detective Conan: The Legendary Treasure of Strange Rock Island)
“Kigantou Hihou Densetsu (Eng. “The Legend of Treasure on a Strange Rock Island”) is a top-down adventure game from Meitantei Conan series featuring Edogawa Conan (real name is Kudou Shin’ichi) as a protagonist on a case to solve the mystery on the Kigantou island. However, Conan is not the only character you can control in the game, beside him you can control Shin’ichi’s girlfriend Ran, her father, the renowned detective thanks to Conan, Kogoro, Ran’s high-school girlfriend, Sonoko, and Conan’s classmates Mitsuhiko, Ayumi and Genta. Based on the character you control, certain areas may be accessible or inaccessible, and certain dialogues and dispositions from other characters may vary.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/70886/meitantei-conan-kigantou-hiho-densetsu/

It was fan translated in February 2017.

Meitantei Conan & Kindaichi Shounen no Jikenbou: Meguri au Futari no Meitantei (Detective Conan & Kindaichi Case Files: Chance Encounter of 2 Great Detectives)
“Meitantei Conan & Kindaichi Shōnen no Jikenbo: Meguri au 2-Jin no Meitantei is an adventure game and a crossover between Meitantei Conan and Kindaichi Shōnen no Jikenbo, two franchises centered around different detective manga series—the first one published in Shogakukan’s Weekly Shōnen Sunday since 1994, and the second one in Kodansha’s Weekly Shōnen Magazine starting from 1992. The bulk of the game functions as a visual novel, in which either Conan or Hajime travels around the island using a map, talks with other characters and gathers clues to solve a murder. When investigating the crime scene, the player can use the touchscreen in order to analyze an object of interest in a regular point-and-click fashion, albeit with a stylus. Information about the evidence, testimonies and the suspects is stored in a journal available at all times. The dialogue system makes it possible to talk with all characters present at the moment, but they may not have much to tell, since the plot is linear. It can be moved forward only by interrogating specific people.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/76045/meitantei-conan-kindaichi-shonen-no-jikenbo-meguriau-futari-no-m/

It was fan translated in June 2015.

Who wants more anime/manga-related licenced games?

I think Akira needs no introductions. Let’s just put this quote here, which you may agree or disagree with:
“It has been cited as a masterpiece and is widely regarded by audiences and critics as one of the greatest films ever made, especially in the field of animation and in the action and science fiction genres.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akira_(1988_film)

The 1988 NES game is not necessarily as praiseworthy, but it’s another fan translated title, so “yatta”?

Akira
“The game is based on the animé movie of the same name. The year is 2019, 31 years after World War III. The events of the game (and of the movie) take place in a futuristic city called New Tokyo, which is controlled by corrupted military and rival gangs. You control Kaneda, the leader of one of such guys, and the main character in the movie. Kaneda’s childhood friend, Tetsuo, is injured during the highway chase, and taken by the military. While trying to free your friend, you find out a strange power is growing inside him…
The game is a traditional Japanese adventure. Instead of a menu with set commands, you have different options on each screen. After watching a cutscene or scrolling through a dialogue, you have several options to choose from. In many situations, some options will lead to Kaneda’s death or imprisonment, which is Game Over. There are no real puzzles or anything of the sort, but if you choose the “examine” option which is available on most screens, you can move the cursor around the screen and choose what exactly you want to examine.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/13653/akira/

It was fan translated in April 2012.

Next up, something very fresh and very cool.

This fan translation is brand new, it was released less than a week ago.
And (some of) the graphics look absolutely amazing. Beautiful pixelarts, nice dithering, it looks like a recently discovered hidden Sierra game!

And the game is Shin Taketori Monogatari for PC-8×01 from 1984.
I haven’t even attempted to play it yet, but it looks great.
I must also say that it’s been a long time since I have last seen game graphics that is actually drawn in front of your eyes, like lines first, fill colours/patterns next. I think it can be a bit annoying in the long run, and hopefully can be sped up in the emulation, but as a rare thing, it looks kind of fun too!

This game is so obscure that I can’t even find any good quotable webpages about it, as it’s not mentioned in Wikipedia, Mobygames, or other usual places. The very short description I use here is from Visual Novel Database, where it is listed.
(By the way, is a parser-driven adventure game a visual novel…?)

Shin Taketori Monogatari
“The game is a gag parody on Japanese Taketori legend. The purpose of the game is to discover anything at any opportunity and have fun.”
https://vndb.org/v9516

It was fan translated in December 2023.

And now someone who actually knows something about this can tell the rest of us, is this the same game as the 1988 NES/Famicom game that has also been fan translated?
It is listed as the same game in VNDB, but some parts of the game look different, even though some parts look the same.

For instance, the forest picture looks like this in the NES version:

A bit more suspiciously, the game also has a different name, it’s called Kaguya Hime Densetsu. That title is actually listed on Mobygames.

Kaguya Hime Densetsu
“The legend of Kaguya-hime is one of the most popular stories in Japanese mythology. Once upon a time, an old man went to the forest to cut some bamboo, and found a little baby girl. He took her to his house and named her Kaguya-hime. She grew up there, and soon became the most beautiful girl of Japan. Many young men, including the son of the emperor himself, tried to conquer her heart, but for no avail. One day Kaguya-hime confessed she was a moon angel, and returned back to the moon. In this game, you control the son of the emperor, and you’ll do your best to reach Kaguya-hime and to protect her. You must overcome various obstacles and meet characters from Japanese folklore.
The game is a traditional Japanese adventure: all the actions are performed by selecting commands from the menu, including moving from location to location. You view the locations from first-person perspective, but there are also parts where you navigate your character from a top-down view. Beside the usual adventure commands such as “look”, “take”, or “use” (an inventory item) there are some more original actions available under “extras”, such as “kiss”, “attack”, and even “undress”.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/13627/kaguya-hime-densetsu/

Assuming it’s the same game on a different platform, it was fan translated already back in November 2009.

Different platform versions can be quite different sometimes, so let’s have an example of that inspired by the game(s) in the previous message.

The Portopia Serial Murder Case is quite famous game, according to Wikipedia:
“Upon its release, The Portopia Serial Murder Case was well received in Japan. It became an influential title, helping to define the visual novel genre as well as inspiring Japanese game designers such as Hideo Kojima and Nintendo’s Eiji Aonuma.”

The original 1983 game was for NEC PC-6001, but 1985 NES/Famicom version is considerably different. From Wikipedia again:
“The Famicom version of Portopia also features branching menu selections, which includes using the pointer as a magnifying glass to investigate objects, which is needed to find hidden clues, and as a fist or hammer to hit anything or anyone, which could be used to carry out beatings during suspect interrogations. Additional sequences were also added, notably an underground dungeon maze, with a style similar to role-playing video games.”

As the text suggests, an additional dungeon maze almost put the game in a different genre, or how do you feel about things like that?

The game doesn’t seem to be fan translated in its original version sadly, but the Famicom version has been.

Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken (The Portopia Serial Murder Case)
“Yuji Horii’s second published game (after Love Match Tennis), Portopia Renzoku Satsujin Jiken (Portopia Serial Murder Case) is a first-person murder mystery text adventure, which allows players to input commands by selecting them from a verb list and searching onscreen graphics for hot spots.
The story puts players in the shoes of a nameless Japanese police detective on a quest to solve the murder of a bank director. On his travels through real Japanese settings, the nameless, silent protagonist is assisted by his colleague Yasu who carries out his orders.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/39799/portopia-renzoku-satsujin-jiken/

It was fan translated in October 2010.

Shall we continue discussing NES/Famicom releases, or does anyone have any requests? 

I think we have had few horror games here already, so let’s have something from the horror side this time as well, a 1989 Famicom game.

Seirei Gari (Ghost Hunter)
“The boy Michimune and the girl Miu happily live in a small house together with their wise old grandfather. One day, just when they were about to celebrate Miu’s birthday, the room suddenly became dark, and an evil demonic figure appeared out of nowhere. Ironically, the dark being addressed your grandfather, saying it’s been a long time. Apparently, grandfather also knew who or what this figure was, since he called him by the name Rosenkreuz. Rosenkreuz explains that he has waited a hundred years, but now it is possible to bring back the God of Evil, and to control the world! But for an unknown reason, he needs Miu. Rosenkreuz strikes your grandfather, and kidnaps Miu! Before grandfather dies, he could only whisper: “Save… Miu…”. And thus, Michimune embarks on a dangerous journey to the land of evil, to save Miu from the clutches of Rosenkreuz.
“Seirei Gari” is a horror-themed adventure game along the lines of the more known Uninvited or Deja Vu. Every action is performed by choosing a command from the menu. You should examine every location before objects become “visible” and possible to interact with. Sometimes you’ll also have companions at your side who will help you on your quest.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/13642/seirei-gari/

It was fan translated in May 2007.

And more weird NES/Famicom stuff, more specifically Famicom Disk System expansion.

Suishou no Dragon (Crystal Dragon)
“Suishō no Dragon (水晶の龍, suishō no doragon, lit. “The Quartz Dragon” or “Crystal Dragon”) is a text-based adventure video game developed and published by Square for the Family Computer Disk System in Japan in 1986.
The game plays as a command-style adventure game. The game’s interface resembles that of a point-and-click graphic adventure interface for a console. The game made use of visual icons rather than text-based ones to represent various actions, and it featured a cursor that could be moved around the screen using the D-pad to click on the icons and examine parts of the scenery.
The game is set in a science fiction setting, where the main character, Hugh, and his girlfriend Cynthia are traveling in space, but are attacked by a crystal dragon: Hugh escapes with the help of a mysterious woman, but Cynthia is kidnapped. Hugh must find the dragon and save his girlfriend.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suishō_no_Dragon

It was fan translated in January 2003.

This one has no connection to anything that was discussed before. Not Famicom this time, but a PlayStation game from 1998. I happened to watch a movie yesterday that was kind of ocean-themed, so this selection is partly inspired by that.

b.l.u.e. Legend of water
“b.l.u.e.: Legend of Water is a 3D game with many puzzles. Maia, a seventeen-year-old girl and main character of the game, travels to Northern Cross, a marine research station where her father is working. The team at Northern Cross is excavating ruins that are believed to be from an ancient temple of the Mu dynasty. After a dream, Maia visits the ruins and investigates the mystery of the temple with the dolphin Luka. Throughout the game they cooperate to solve puzzles. A large part of the game is spent underwater, exploring.”
https://www.mobygames.com/game/196451/blue-legend-of-water/

It was fan translated in December 2022.

Okay, something very different this time.
Freeware!

Well, technically speaking we have discussed some Polish freeware earlier in the thread, but this time it’s Japanese.

Whether this game should be accepted in the thread can be debated, I guess.
According to Mobygames: “Shūjin e no Pert-em-Hru is a freeware horror adventure game created for the PC-98 using RPG Maker Dante 98 II.”
But on the other hand, Wikipedia says: “Shūjin e no Pert-em-Hru (囚人へのペル・エム・フル, Shūjin e no Peru emu furu) is a Japanese freeware role-playing video game created with RPG Maker Dante 98 II.”

So, is it adventure? Is it RPG? Is it both? Is it neither?
Any comments?

Shūjin e no Pert-em-Hru (Peret em Heru: For the Prisoners)
“Shūjin e no Pert-em-Hru (囚人へのペル・エム・フル, Shūjin e no Peru emu furu) is a Japanese freeware role-playing video game created with RPG Maker Dante 98 II, by Makoto Yaotani (八百谷 真), then under the alias “Makoto Serise” (芹瀬 眞人). “Pert-em-Hru” refers to the Egyptian Book of the Dead, so the title of the game means “The Book of the Dead for the Prisoners”. The game was produced by two people, with Yaotani responsible for most of the development, and production took a year and a half to complete.
The game received many honours, including the Platinum Prize in the ASCII-held monthly contest “Internet Contest Park” — the only Platinum Prize to be given out during the existence of the contest.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shūjin_e_no_Pert-em-Hru

It was fan translated in September 2014.

The good thing here is that because it’s freeware, we don’t need to be shy about sharing download links either, so here it is for those who want it:
https://memoriesoffear.jcink.net/index.php?showtopic=61

Another challenging question: do undubs count as fan translations, or is it a completely different thing?

And since we like difficult questions in this thread, does Yakuza count as an adventure game by any definition, or is it something completely different?
In any case, let’s look at the fantastic undub patch, Yakuza Restored, which has been made for that game. It does much more than just translating things, although (partial) re-translation is a big part of it.
It does the following changes to the game:

- English dub audio has been replaced with the original Japanese audio.
- Cutscene subtitles have been completely re-translated, with the Japanese audio timing.
- In-game script has received a complete re-edit and partial re-translation pass:
- - Removed all excessive profanity/vulgarity, the affected lines re-translated.
- - Restored all original character names (didn’t mess with Punk-Ass Abe though…)
- - Re-translated any parts that seemed suspect, off, or didn’t make sense.
- - Changed titles like patriarch/captain/lieutenant.
- - Consistent use of honorifics.
- - Fixed up awkward or poor wording.
- - Fixed up layouts, with consistent use of typewriter pauses, and some additional color coding.
- - Fixed a number of dialog bugs present in the original version.
- - Innumerable other corrections, tweaks, and re-translations.
- - In terms of raw numbers, around 50% of the ~20K in-game lines have been modified some way.
- Introduction, mission, and fight cards have been recreated using a familiar font.
- Freeze-frame introductions have been recreated to match the in-game image, with improved quality.
- Typewriter/text videos have been recreated.
- Chapter title cards have been edited for translation and layout.
- Opening trailer has been recreated shot-for-shot in higher quality, as far as was possible.
- Cutscene subtitles have been raised a bit, as they were too close to the edge of the screen.
- Title screen has received a small makeover.
- End credits have been edited to reflect the change in voiced language.

And let’s have a look at the game itself, I don’t think it needs introductions, but let’s stick to the format:

Yakuza
“Yakuza is an action-adventure video game developed and published by Sega for the PlayStation 2. It was released in 2005 in Japan and in September 2006 internationally. The story follows Kazuma Kiryu, a yakuza member who spent ten years in prison for a crime he did not commit. After being released, he learns that the criminal underworld is searching for 10 billion yen that has been stolen from the Tojo clan. He comes across an orphan named Haruka who is being targeted by the clan. She is believed to have the key to their lost money and Kiryu resolves to protect her. The game takes place in Kamurocho, a realistic recreation of Tokyo’s Kabukicho district.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakuza_(video_game)

It was undubbed in June 2022.